TRACEY: “You mentioned in your speech earlier at this event that we’re at the Peace Ball, we want to basically advocating for a general movement of peace. I’m wondering how you relate that to the issue of Ukraine, because it seems like the Democrats in Congress were almost virtually united, actually 100 percent united in funding Ukraine, which whether you like it or not, that does involve sending a giant amount of munitions and weapons and armaments into a hugely destructive war where you have hundreds of thousands of casualties, Russians and Ukrainians piling up in the battlefield, and the only criticism was coming from a section of Republicans. So is there any contradiction, do you think, in terms of you calling for peace or Democrats calling for peace not being able — not being willing to at all reevaluate the policy on Ukraine, which has really been extremely catastrophic. It’s some of the most brutal warfare since World War I, like 100 years ago, and Democrats, from my perspective, just to be honest with you, have been very missing in action in kind of critically evaluating that policy and just going along with it, whatever the Biden-Harris Administration wanted in terms of weapons. Really, what about diplomacy? What about some other option rather than just dumping endless weapons into Ukraine? Is that fair, do you think?”
BUSH: “I think the other part of that, though, is the threat of U.S. troops by the masses moving to the ground was a very real thing. At least that’s how it was presented. It had been presented to us in Congress, and for me —”
TRACEY: “Presented by who?”
BUSH: “Presented by the administration, that — you know, that would be a very real thing. So did we want to keep U.S. troops from having to go to Ukraine? So that was the thing that people were weighing.”
TRACEY: “So the White House presented — just to clarify — the White House, the Biden White House, presented the issue to you as if you don’t supply the weapons that they say are required, that could involve — that might mean that U.S. troops would have to go into the combat?”
BUSH: “If we don’t — not — not saying that if we don’t supply the weapons. It was if — if you all don’t support — if you all don’t support these bills, then that could be the outcome. And so for many — and I can’t speak for everyone, but the question, when I look at my own district — when I look at my own district, and I think about those who often are the ones who end up with the least amount of help, the least amount of services, often don’t have what they need when they return back. I wanted to support my community in that. So that’s what that was about, making sure that we weren’t sending the same black and brown bodies to go and do this bidding, and then using the money and the resources to go and do that. I can’t speak for everyone, but I know that that was what some people — that was what some people were thinking. And so I can’t — like I said, I can’t speak for everyone. I didn’t have those conversations, but that was just a very real thing. So —”
TRACEY: “I just want to clarify one thing on — sorry, I forgot to put my microphone on my face. Your thinking at the time, you know, when these appropriations bills came forward in terms of arms for Ukraine, was that by approving arms for Ukraine, you were lessening the likelihood that, as you put it, black and brown, you know, soldiers or people that had joined the military would end up getting deployed to Ukraine? So that’s how the administration framed it. So I assume, you know, through no fault of your own, you’re not somebody who spent a whole lot of time probably focused on the issue of Ukraine over the course of your career. You have other interests mostly, right? And so they presented it to you, or your interpretation was that by providing those munitions, you were basically saving or, you know —”
BUSH: “No. No.”
TRACEY: “No? OK. So it’s — yeah.”
BUSH: “No, no, no, no. No. It wasn’t providing munitions. It was supporting these bills, supporting these bills to hold off Russia, supporting these bills. Was there funding for — funding for — for —”
TRACEY: “For munitions.”
BUSH: “It was for what the funding was for. This was a way to stop us from sending U.S. troops who, for me, what I was already dealing with in my district, were mostly black and brown and marginalized folks that we were trying to help. It was to stop that from being — from being the next occurrence. That’s what that was for.”
TRACEY: “But those bills provided munitions.” [crosstalk]
BUSH: “I’ve given you a lot of time, a lot of time. And so — you know, and for you to turn this into a Ukraine thing was not — you know, so I — you know, I’m trying to answer your question.”
TRACEY: “I’m trying to be — I thought I was trying — I’m trying to be respectful, honestly.”
BUSH: “Yeah, yeah, yeah.”
TRACEY: “I just thought that Ukraine was relevant, given that we’re at the Peace Ball, that’s another conflict going on. You don’t think so?”
BUSH: “No, no, no, no, absolutely. I just — what I’m saying is, is that I — you keep like going — asking question after question after question. I only answered two questions with everybody else. I gave you, like, what, six?”
TRACEY: “OK. No, that’s fine. Yeah.”
BUSH: “So — and so you know.”
TRACEY: “All right. Well, I — I appreciate it. I didn’t mean to be rude at all.”
BUSH: “No, you weren’t being rude. You took the opportunity to just —”
TRACEY: “I did.”
BUSH: “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.”
TRACEY: “Yes. OK.”
BUSH: “Anyone would do — I get it. I get it. I’m just saying, I’ll just —”
TRACEY: “OK.”
BUSH: “OK. Yeah.”
TRACEY: “All right, well —”
BUSH: “And again, I don’t want to speak for other people about, because I haven’t had those conversations. So, yeah. Yeah.”
TRACEY: “All right. Well, former Congresswoman Cori Bush of Missouri, thank you very much.”
BUSH: “Absolutely.”
TRACEY: “All right, thank you.”
BUSH: “Yeah. Absolutely.”
TRACEY: “All right. Thank you.”
BUSH: “Thank you.”